“With such an archaic control system, which is now, I would be more not a penny invested in education” – why innovation in schools meet with resistance, how to change approach to the evaluation of the child, why the teaching profession should be temporary and as the government and society will be able to believe in education – says the scientific Director of the Institute of educational policy problems “Evrika” Alexander Adamsky.
Photo: Anton Unitsyn/RIA Novosti
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The child was punished, and remained
– I would like in connection with the beginning of the school year to talk about expectations, hopes, assumptions associated with the school. Is there a problem that you’d like to say?
– I believe that the key factor influencing the children receive a bad or a good education is society’s attitude to children and to education, and not a specific school, teacher, Ministry, and everything else. And a serious task, which is to speak and try something to do is to change the attitude to the child in the family, in society and in the state. This is something that is at the level of morals, and it is more important for education than something that directly affects the educational process (although it is also, of course, is important).
– What’s wrong with the attitude in society and in the family to the child?
– We have a dominant and key is the attitude to the child as something unfinished, imperfect as the semi-finished product, which must always teach pull up, insert into frame, yelling at him and even beat him. It determines everything else – the attitude of the school, the Ministry, teachers and so on.
We can debate what is the root cause, but we have what we have – namely, the actual discrimination of childhood in the public consciousness.
Diskriminerad and children not power, not Putin, not the Ministry of education, and their family and friends, ordinary people.
Enough to look around yourself to see, what does this mean: “stop”, “shut up”, “I’m the man” and so on. It’s the modern norm of the children in our society. And I don’t know what to do with it. The only thing I understand is that if the child is screaming, constantly making his remarks, inserted in frames, and so on, it is a manifestation of the relationship to him as defective.
– Any parent who adheres to such policy in respect of a child, having read this far, hurt, and mind you that he does it with the best of intentions – it corrects wrong behavior of the child, teaching him to conform, cares about his safety, about the comfort of others and so on. “What do I do – tell parent – if he throws sand at other kids on the beach? Of course, I will straighten out”.
– Yes, but, first, we must understand that he is throwing sand, because in no other way can attract attention to himself, or he can’t come out and say, “Can I play with you?”, to meet and so on.
Secondly, it would be good to explain to this parent that it teaches the child that when looking at it, when you yell at him and pulls it, throwing sand is impossible, and in all other aspects. And so, by the way, today the child in most families is a source of crime consciousness, and not the normal development, as psychologists would say.
– What does this mean?
Is that because of the constant odergivaniya, screaming and so on, the child grows in the belief that it is bad to do when you are in control, and when no one sees you. There grows “if no camera, violate as you wish”, you can break the law, if not caught, can be rude, if there is nobody to intercede. The question of whether a good school and teacher to win public sentiment is the eternal question of pedagogy. That’s why I’m involved in educational policy: institutions can train people to think and act differently, to live by different rules, and so on. But how can I change these rules? It is a question.
– I just think that now the proportion of parents who, conversely, allow the child, and he grows in confidence that he is the center of the earth, it can kill an adult if it is necessary, to select something from a neighbor, to do something that he wants, in the middle of class, and so on.
– This is a question of social agreements about what can and what can not. There are cases that are beyond the norm – they are few, but they are. The rest you can.
– Where is the line between acceptance, the rules and restrictions?
– This face depends on how to negotiate about it. And it is, unfortunately, not domestic, because if a child or adult see on TV swear large policy, it is very difficult to behave differently. It’s hard to explain to the child that you don’t yell at him, to kill him and throw him when on TV adults do it in front of him.
– It turns out that the issue is a global solutions – urgently to change the entire policy on television, to reconsider the social system of values?
– I still think about something else – about how in the society to reach agreement. You need to look inside the human dialogue, what is good and what is bad. Please note – when there is a critical situation, nobody argues about what is good and bad, and political differences do not prevent people to go and save each other. In such situations there is a feeling of normal behavior, and it is miraculous – it is no one did not atregularintervals, but it is. Human nature is inherent, but why is that normal logic does not work in relation to children, I can’t understand.
– But is it not the case that in the last 15-20 years, since, as has become fashionable attachment theory, all a little changed for the better? We just recently on another occasion spoke with a psychologist about what in our childhood, in Soviet times, it was the norm to put baby food uneaten by the collar in kindergarten, to scare him a policeman, and so forth, and that now it is rather exotic. And then the children did not complain, and adults don’t run to protect them. Maybe today the situation a little better?
– A little Yes, but in fact there was a softening of manners, but the child was punished, and remained. Why are we so surprised when we fall into other companies and see that baby all you can, and the phenomenon of punishment is not as such. And we in our attitude to inspire the child’s desire to suppress the other, to dominate, and it remains with him for life. He goes to school with him from kindergarten, and the teacher begins to compare with others, continually assessed, and the feeling that you are unfinished and defective, increases.
On the eve of the school year, I think about it: what if the children get lucky and they will have a good teacher and a good school, and then what? Conflict with parents? It turns out that if we want to make a school good, it is the inevitable conflict with parents. And I know from my friends who sit in a parent chat that there thrives in full aggression.
But, on the other hand, you are right about the changes – Yes, they happen. Formed social group of young, intelligent, well-educated parents, often well placed in life who look in the right direction and even create such schools. The most famous parent – Herman Gref, but a lot less known and younger people. Relatively lot, of course, but compared to the total mass of the parents – a bit. But because it creates a niche of schools and kindergartens, where the children of these families are grouped, it’s a kind of strata. And this, of course, both good and bad.
– What disadvantages of separation from the General mass, if these people are different from her interests, opinions, principles?
– In Soviet period I worked in an English school here (now I am the Chairman of the governing Board), and it concentrated children in creative families, families of party leaders
– There were several such private schools.
– Yes, and they were not closed by order of the Committee, and themselves separated. The twentieth, fifty-seventh, the second, the one hundred and fiftieth Spanish… was stratification, and here it is now, but different. This is the eternal question of educational policy: what is better – a democratic school, which take everybody, or school, where children are motivated – they are interested in each other, with teachers, it is interesting to learn, and they move on. This is the eternal question. Why hate Kalina? He broke this elitist history. He said, “We will give everyone equal opportunities”. It’s good to talk in General, but when you’re a father, mother, grandfather or grandmother of an individual child, you will do everything to make your child study in a good school with proper children.
The teaching profession can not be eternal
– Suppose there is a teacher who genuinely wants to break this social stereotype attitudes towards children, he’s talented, he’s a big lad and so on, but he’s a wild strain, a small salary, tutoring, and even in his garden, in order to survive, the family, and he had the official who was talking trash and nonsense about the fact that I had successfully get married, but not to teachers College to go, and so on. How about this?
– Such arguments don’t work on me for several reasons. First, I did it all passed – and a small salary, and with a huge effort, and the boss is a fool: I worked in a rural Ukrainian schools.
Secondly, I communicate with Fedor Sheberstov, the project “teach for Russia”, they take guys who want to be teachers, learn, and then go to the village school. Amazing guys who are interested – they care much more dramatic circumstances than I and most of the teachers because they get into bad weak schools to the most incompetent, unprofessional teachers, all around drunk, and they need to teach children. But they have a community that supports them, where they discuss it as a mission.
And third, I believe that the teaching profession can not be eternal for life. I think he worked for seven years as a teacher – look for another job.
– To avoid burnout?
– Burnout occurs later, in seven years you appear stamps. When I first came to the newspaper, I was one “experienced” journalist taught to take an interview: “It’s very simple. Ask the character three questions. First: how he came to such a life? Second: it was difficult? Third: the friends helped? Here’s the entire interview”. And all his interviews were the same. And teacher. If you have once walked it with children, for you this is nothing new.
Compare the result of the child with its projection in the future
– What would you say is the most important change that awaits us in the near future?
– We are now at a crossroads. Until now, the system evaluation was based on fixed external indicators: was the installation, what you need to know so-and-so, and know it well. We reached the peak of this performance.
Now due to the fact that there is a blockchain, there are different “big data”, it is possible to collect about the child a huge amount of information to identify its installation and ability, and in addition, you can collect data not only about education but also about the economy, production, social processes and so forth, and to understand how the abilities of the child can develop, be implemented, in some activities, and you can build a personal so-called route of the child’s success. And then the evaluation result will be made not by someone external criteria, and relative abilities of the child, the possibility of socialization in the future.
The old evaluation system itself is becoming obsolete, so it transformirovalsya in the most severe total control.
Because otherwise how to evaluate? So, there should be more monitoring and tests. But evaluation linked to external criteria is both good and bad.
Remember the cartoon depicted the monkey, the crow, the penguin, the fish in the aquarium, elephant, walrus and wolf, and the examiner tells them: “That assessment was the most honest, the job one to climb to the top of the tree!” And the fact that it is now possible that I will promote as it is for me a key issue in technology education is a single system of evaluation for fish, another for poultry, and the third for the wolf, the fourth – for an elephant and so on.
– If it’s already somewhere in the world?
– No – we can be in this area by the pioneers. And, by the way, we here have always been pioneers, were just different terms, because the history of the Soviet Pedology in 30 years – it’s about the same thing: let us examine the child and his abilities and prostroim his individual trajectory.
So for me, the key issues in modern education are: first, parent warming in relation to their own children – but I don’t know how to do it, and second, individualization, and not in the sense of individual curriculum, but in terms of individual route of success and evaluating outcomes in relation to this.
– How is this individualization of assessment looks technically? You must carefully explore each child?
– No – there is a huge amount of tools. See: a child commits an educational action, and it leaves an electronic trail. Such traces can be a huge amount – he worked in the physical laboratory, had the lesson of the drama, sat in math class, went to the activities, engaged in social activity and so on – all this leaves an electronic footprint. They can be fixed so that we can see what the directions in which he is successful – in the study, in engineering tasks or in creative profile in social activities, or in sports.
– Suppose we found that he is successful in the drama club. What happens next?
– Then we understand that his realization that it creates an image. Thus it is not necessary to think that it is sure to be an actor, and his success in this area it just shows that it has a specific set of competencies that will be needed in other areas.
And we understand that this set of competencies now, in 2018, is being successfully implemented in such areas – after all, we have a database not only on schools and education, we understand what is happening in the high technology, the economy, art. In all of these areas there are people who manifest themselves, and we can take these examples and use them to tell the child: “Here’s the route such a person who is similar to you set of skills and successfully implements themselves in this area. Come on, we’ll bind your result with this? You have to accept a little pitchy here and there”.
– How did we do this projection to it in the future?
– The achievements of those who have similar competencies. This prediction works well in medicine. Artem Ermolaev, head of the Department of information technology, said that it is possible to predict visits to the doctor, or disease, because your condition is, with all due respect, is not unique, and the same symptoms of the masses of people.
– Actually, this is all medicine.
– Absolutely right, so we can with high probability assume that you will be tomorrow or the day after based on the analysis of data from other people with the same symptoms. And in exactly the same way on the basis of the analysis data of people with the same competencies to predict what will happen with the child with varying degrees of probability.
– It turns out that actually we compare unique child with other people?
– To compare, but not with one another, and with implemented competence. If a child wants to be an educational politician, then let him take my data and see what it can be in so many years, and decide whether he wants to or not.
– That is, we take the data successfully realized in this area of a person, for a nominal five?
– Yes, we decide whether the child and his family is the same implementation, and compare the example we see with you.
– Then you can say, but if the teenager ideal – a successful from his point of view, a person who is under a palm tree doing nothing?
– First of all, if this is his ideal, then whatever you do, you still won’t change that. Secondly, then start things that are just not very comfortable, but they are necessary: it should be a compulsory basic block because there is a state, a society that believes that it needs to be.
You can’t insert into the galley rocket engine
– What problem would you call a major to date?
– If to speak about some specific things that I am most worried about the collapse of school buildings: up to 60% of the buildings are worn down to a critical state. They need funds, and to budget these funds. I believe that you need to create 4 million new ucenika places, it needs about 3.5 trillion rubles. The money for that.
To solve this problem, it is necessary to go on investment – we take the money, including abroad, building schools and due to the normative per capita financing and effective management of these schools returned these investments. There’s no other way, otherwise everything will collapse. 3.5 trillion is a consolidated education budget, which is about 3-4% of GDP. This is the main, the most unpleasant problem.
The second story of the education policy I care about is the modernizing of the school. Clash of the archaic institutions of governance and digitalization brings to no good.
You can’t insert into the galley rocket engine, simply because the rowers in the galley, with perfect craftsmanship, will sabotage the implementation process of the engine.
Now this is what is happening because of digital technology, the blockchain, make unnecessary the Ministerial-departmental structure of education management system: big data and their automated analysis can accredit schools in automatic mode, and immediately a huge number of people remains without work. But no, we have rowers on the galleys, so-called experts and government officials.
– It turns out that digitalisation must destroy the bureaucracy?
– Of course. The figure replaces the routine, laborious work that reduces the human factor, automatiseret and standardize processes. If we have a lot of data and we understand how to aggregate and analyze, and so forth, it is the management, especially if there is monitoring, which collects these data at the school level in automatic mode. Then manage that as it was in the time of Ivan the terrible made on the principle of clerks and orders, and remained, seemingly not need.
– And teachers will not have to fill out a ton of paperwork?
Not only teachers need filling – officials makes no sense to collect them and send on. Early on the railroads and worked the switches manually, but now imagine that strange. Here is exactly the same situation.
– But it is not a problem, but a trend?
Technical problems here, there are exclusively human – resistance officials. As a result, all our government contracts and strategies, national projects and so on are reduced to writing papers, and not the cause. The buildings are crumbling, but with such an archaic control system, which is now, I would be more not a penny invested in education, because the more a system of control put, the worse the system becomes.
– What’s the solution?
– Fundamentally change the system of modern management with minimum supervision and reporting procedures to automate system management. Unfortunately, it is necessary for this part to centralize, because imagine what would happen if the rail each stage by itself will manage – we have about the same now. Schools should be public and not municipal, then the digital system can earn, otherwise they do not work.
In General, we are now at the many forks in the road, and the next two to three years will determine the movement of the education system. If society and the government believe that education affects life, I would think. But if, as now, no one will believe in education…
– What is this unbelief?
– In everything. This is evident in respect of children who cheat on the exam, and for adults, for which the crust is more important than knowledge or contribution to science. What is taught in school, no use to anyone, including employers, and all. Even I, a person who is engaged in education, frankly, do not care what degree have my staff and what is written in it – I look at what they can do.
And scale which we have emerged in education (the question of the tree and the fish) and the scale of what Marx called the social production do not coincide. Education does not teach to solve the problem posed by the manufacture. I don’t need the definition, which is taught in school – I need the skills, competences, ability to act in new situations, not memorize paragraphs by heart.
Ksenia Knorre Dmitrieva